Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 NHL Quarterfinals Riot, Montreal

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete - WP:SNOW and this was already deleted once before under another name which elludes me at the moment. -Djsasso (talk) 18:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

2008 NHL Quarterfinals Riot, Montreal

2008 NHL Quarterfinals Riot, Montreal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Wikipedia is not the news. This riot isn't notable, it sounds like something typical. Also it seems like an attack page: "were commited by those who weren't necessarily fans but also by social deviants such as Communists, Anarchists and Punks." and "the city looked upon itself in shame considering that it was only the Quarterfinals and celebrations such as these shouldn't be normal until a Stanley Cup victory" Coasttocoast (talk) 01:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - the one cite in the article is from 2005 and doesn't (can't?) mention this 2008 riot.  Frank  |  talk  01:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per Frank. WP:OR, WP:RS, WP:V and poss WP:BOLLOCKS.  Esradekan Gibb  ^"Talk" 03:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. The best I can say about this article is that this riot did in fact take place. [1] [2] --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. —Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Happened, but unsourced and unlikely to have any long-term notability. And furthermore, the statement "social deviants such as Communists, Anarchists and Punks" (because there are so many of those running around downtown Montreal in 2008 *eyeroll*) is particularly unlikely to survive any WP:NPOV review, and neither can I see "the city looked upon itself in shame considering that it was only the Quarterfinals and celebrations such as these shouldn't be normal until a Stanley Cup victory" surviving even the most cursory rewrite for WP:V. A genuinely encyclopedic article about this incident might be possible, I suppose, but this article certainly isn't it. Delete. Bearcat (talk) 03:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, doesn't seem to have been discussed in secondary sources in enough depth or detail to warrant an article. Cirt (talk) 03:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Actually, there was a LOT of in-depth press coverage, as one might expect with this sort of thing. Still, it may well fail WP:NOTNEWS and I'm not at all convinced there is lasting notability, especially as it's written now. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 03:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per Shawn in Montreal, and WP:NOTNEWS. I don't think these riots by themselves are historically important, and therefore are not encyclopedic content. If anything, an article could be created for hockey riots, incorporating this and other riots, such as the 1994 Stanley Cup riot. DigitalC (talk) 05:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Keep More sources have been added. All information has been backed up by news articles or other bits of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Habs4ever (talk • contribs) 05:31, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Single event and a POV/OR article. Did anything change in the world because this happened? No, just one in a line of sports fans (or non-sports fans as the case may be) going nuts. Not encyclopedic. Franamax (talk) 05:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Merge into 2007–08 Montreal Canadiens season. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 05:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Agree - Merge This merits one sentence in a larger article about the team's season. Definitely not a standalone entry that seems intended to scold the city's fans. Townlake (talk) 16:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment Might as well delete all riot-related material with the logic being used. Not all material on Wikipedia was "world-changing". This was a significant event that was covered in Montreal for days after the game, and arrests were being made even 3 weeks later.Habs4ever (talk)

You can have that viewpoint, and you're free to nominate for AfD whatever articles you choose. Do you have examples? What made this riot particularly noteworthy? Contrast for instance with the Richard Riot, which was significant in the franco/anglophone Canadian context. Franamax (talk) 06:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment This riot was one of the first in Montreal's history to be captured not only live, but also by fans capturing the event on their hand-held portable devices such as videophones. 56 arrests were made thanks to videos that were put on websites such as YouTube. This was the first sports-related riot in Montreal since the 1993 Stanley Cup Riot and was the first riot to put on YouTube, where the (majority?) of criminals were identified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Habs4ever (talk • contribs) 15:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. A pretty minor incident. The much larger 1993 Stanley Cup Riot does certainly deserve an article, and I'm surprised it's only now been created. - SimonP (talk) 13:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The secondary coverage is there; had the article been written in a more encyclopedic, non-POV way, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Habs4ever, you might want to check the Wikipedia style guide for future reference. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 13:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment Please note that the article does not necessarily relfect my point of view, but the POV and general feeling of the city at the time. I have provided a number of news articles that back up what was written in the article. Feel free to message me and leave your input.Habs4ever (talk) 15:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

  Comment - the sentence about "communists, anarchists, and punks" is certainly not validly sourced. That article does mention "anarchists" to some degree, but actually a counterpoint in the same article is that it was NOT anarchists because the perps were not hiding.  Frank  |  talk  15:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

  Comment - another article has been sourced that specifically mentions the actions of the anarchists and punks.Habs4ever (talk) 16:04, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

  At the risk of seeming tiresome (which I'm really not trying to be), can you explain why that source is not a WP:SPS?  Frank  |  talk  16:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

  Comment I guess it has been explained below.Habs4ever (talk) 16:31, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Delete, maybe mention the riot in 2007–08 Montreal Canadiens season. I've delete communists/anarchists/punks for a couple reasons. First, neither mentions communists (why would communists riot over hockey?). Second, the Metro is a rag and isn't a real paper. Third, the second source is a personal website, probably blogish, and therefore doesn't meet WP:RS. Fourth, the Metro even disputes that they were anarchists. Just drunk hockey fans, just like in Calgary and Edmonton. -Royalguard11(T·R!) 16:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

  Comment Fair enough, but care to elaborate as to why the Metro Newspaper can't be used as a source?Habs4ever (talk) 16:31, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Given Metro is published by a reputable newspaper conglomerate in Canada, I would say that it is a valid source. In my very-POV opinion however, I've found that Metro is built around sensationalism and the passing off of opinion as fact. I personally would never use Metro as a primary source on an article. You would be better off seeking the original stories from mainstream Sun Media papers. Resolute 17:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to 2007–08 Montreal Canadiens season. The riot was a minor national-news story related to the Canadiens season. That is the most logical place for the information. Resolute 17:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Sports-related riots are a dime a dozen and there's nothing in the article to suggest this one is in any way notable. And it's not even a "finals" event. I'm in Calgary and this thing barely even rated a mention on the news out here. At best, this rates a paragraph in the main article on the quarterfinals, if such an article even exists. In response to one of the comments above, the capturing of an event like this live or via cellphone cameras, etc. is not notable and hasn't been for about 10 years. 23skidoo (talk) 18:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Would it be considered a major event in the history of Montreal? I doubt it. It rates a mention in the article about the Canadiens. I like the moral of the story: "After all, this is a city where the Habs had won 24 Stanley Cups, so winning shouldn't have been anything new." I don't think they'd made it that far in the playoffs since winning the '93 Stanley Cup. Not that that's any reason to burn cars. Mandsford (talk) 18:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.